Talk:Zac/@comment-8506165-20141213034041/@comment-1330314-20150116203431
But then that would mean we'd have to know what either of us means by the "tank" description. I gave you mine, and I'd like to hear yours. It would help towards the discussion because it would help explain both our approaches: for example, I want Zac to be more AoE-oriented and focused on moving people and himself around, rather than dealing much damage or focusing on single targets, whereas you want to give him more damage, or at least tank scalings to some of his damaging abilities. To me, a bruiser is a champion focused on making a huge impact in fights while being tanky enough to do so, as opposed to a champion who's specifically made to draw a lot of attention to itself and protect its team. Within this definition, Zac is a tank to me because he benefits a lot from drawing fire towards himself, due to his anti-clumping spells, healing and team attention-grabbing resurrection passive. Maokai is another tank, due to the protection he brings to his allies while alive, but Sejuani is more of a bruiser, since despite her amazing lockdown capabilities she doesn't really want or need to be attacked to succeed at what she does. This is also why I'm really reluctant to give Zac more damage: if you're looking at what a champion brings to the table that is unique, damage is just about one of the least unique things out there, so buffing Zac's damage just to make him more viable would bring his viability down to number comparisons, which wouldn't be healthy for champion diversity overall. Amumu has a lot of damage, but then again even with his powerful low-cooldown stun he doesn't have the same sustained AoE CC as Zac (this is even assuming Amumu has 40% CDR and Zac has none, and the prominence of in tank items means it's not particularly hard for either to itemize for CDR, contrarily to what you might think), nor can he initiate from the same range. It's these differences that should make you want to pick one over the other ("Do I want one really powerful instance of CC during initiation, or less bursty but more constant AoE disruption?"), and not just damage values. With this in mind, I think Zac deserves to have stronger rewards for laying his AoE on multiple targets that do not necessarily hinge on damage. Per-champion blob generation on all of his abilities, for example, would give him far more sustain in teamfights, and would indirectly buff his damage output through his W. Making his blobs move towards him, perhaps at the cost of dropping even closer to his opponents, would give him better access to his sustain overall. Having those blobs contribute to his resurrection passive would make it a lot better at breaking up combat mid-fight and therefore increase his disruption potential. On top of this, I think he needs to have some of his ranges reexamined, hence me wanting to implement fixed-radius knockback on his E and ult and buffing the radius on his W to always catch knocked-back enemies. I also think his E needs a few buffs: the range indicator needs to be adjusted, since right now it's easy to accidentally cancel a jump or belly-flop in place just because you were aiming for a location slightly beyond the "allowed" range, and I think it needs to have a constant channel time (which, as Force of Reckon said, would make his top-tier dash range truly valuable at later levels). On top of this, I think channeling the spell should increase the knockup duration on victims he lands on (and perhaps even the damage, at the cost of lower bases and AP scaling), so he'd get rewarded for charging up his ability in the same vein as and . I think all of these buffs would make Zac more viable in a healthy way without necessarily giving him that much more damage output, which is why I think these are tank-style buffs and not bruiser-type buffs.